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  1. #11
    Most Senior member SteveS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny G View Post
    Thanks for the advice SteveS, the bike is on the mountain so it'll be this weekend before I can do the testing and see what I find. So would you guess it's a bare wire in one of the legs causing the issue? You've got my vote come November too........
    HaHa, not a job that I would touch with a 10 foot pole.... :-)

    Good luck in tracking down the problem. Yeah, look for a short circuit of some kind. If you can narrow it down to a particular function it will make it a lot easier to find. Be armed with a lot of fuses.... Or, maybe even bypass the fuse with a 10 Amp resettable or self resetting circuit breaker for the duration of the search?
    ____________________________________
    http://i723.photobucket.com/albums/ww240/supallas/SteveSJBS%2048w_zpsg8cskcue.jpg ...... 2004 660 Camo, "Rhino". And now, also a Wolverine X4. "Wolfy".
    |___________________________________
    | Two roads diverged in a wood,
    | I took the one less traveled by....
    | Oh, Oh .

    | .............
    | ...............
    | ............... #
    |___________________________________

  2. #12
    jimclemjr's Avatar
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    Kenny the bulb comment was generic and a spinoff of SteveS earlier comment.
    I found once when I was messing with my wiring that one of the pins in a connector had backed out of the connector body. If both were to disengage from the body then maybe the body could slide back and expose pins to potential intermittent contact. ????
    Assuming this is a new situation and not connected with any recent changes you made to wiring harness? gauges?
    I also am wondering if the signal circuit uses grounding in a way that if there was a sensor fault it would connect somehow and blow the fuse?
    2016 Wolverine R-Spec EPS, Camo, fender ext. 4000 Moto winch w/syn rope, 14"Method B-locks, 27" Maxxis Vipr 9 & 11's, Full flip windshield, A-arm guards, 2 batts, JBS CVT grind, 16 OD, slugs, purple, JBS/Eibach springs, Autometer Temp Gauge
    08 Rhino 700 SE Black Armor, JBS 734 (bbk w/Carillo crank & rod, CP 11:1, deshrouded valves, Raptor springs, Viking cam & FI, MSD, afr Gauge, Unleashed sheave w/JBS OD 18g greased, Purple, slugs, 27" Mudlite XTRs , 6" Chopped , Mishi Rad, ALBA exhaust

  3. #13
    Kenny G's Avatar
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    Well decided it was time to start running down this problem before tracking season starts. Put a new fuse in the 700 and went through all the functions that the signal fuse branch handles and nothing. Took it out for a quick spin and nothing. So it must be a wire in the wiring harness that's bouncing off a bare spot that causes the fuse to blow? Is there any danger in continuing to run the bike this way? Hell there's a lot of wiring to try and track down! I don't have any extras tied into this electrical branch.
    06/450: Rhino; JBS Hot Rod Sheave/12gr OD's; Blue Spring; 04 Style/KN Air; Dyna CDI; Axia Exhaust Tip; 3" Lift; Sport Shocks; 27X14 Mudlite XTR's; Warn 2500#

    08/700: Rhino; JBS Hot Rod X-Sheave/16gr OD's/Slugged; Purple Spring; Alba TB; Raptor HotCam; MSD/JBS-Map; Yoshimura Duals; Pro One Doors; LSR MTS; LSR Front & Back Supports; Ricochet Skids; Elka 4's; RackZilla/PS: 26X12 Pitbull Growlers; Camoplast T4S; Viper 4500#; Trail Bright LEDs.
    Let'em Buck!!!


  4. #14
    Most Senior member SteveS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny G View Post
    Well decided it was time to start running down this problem before tracking season starts. Put a new fuse in the 700 and went through all the functions that the signal fuse branch handles and nothing. Took it out for a quick spin and nothing. So it must be a wire in the wiring harness that's bouncing off a bare spot that causes the fuse to blow? Is there any danger in continuing to run the bike this way? Hell there's a lot of wiring to try and track down! I don't have any extras tied into this electrical branch.
    You are not likely to cause a fire or other serious problem if you keep using the machine, as long as you do indeed have a fuse in the circuit. A fuse is your friend in this case. Just make sure you have spare fuses on hand.

    I mentioned a list of functions that are tied into this "signal" circuit. None of those functions will keep the machine from getting you home. The ones that might cause you some grief are the brake lights and the neutral light branches. You need these to crank the engine over as they power the starter relay. Be prepared to cross over the contact posts with a screwdriver, pliers, or some such heavy tool. This will turn the starter motor over in a worst case scenario. The ignition power source should not be affected by a blown signal fuse.
    Intermittent shorts are about the hardest electrical problem to track down. It is usually not obvious where the short is located. The approach I take is to substitute an incandescent light bulb for the fuse temporarily while trying to find the short circuit. Use a 12 Volt bulb, the "wattage" is not especially critical. A brake light bulb or larger will likely be fine for this circuit. The bulb will give you feedback as to the current that is being drawn. For example, the test light replacing the fuse will light up to 1/2 or 2/3 of full brightness when you cause the brake lights to come on by pushing on the brake pedal. A dead short causes the test light to come on at full brightness. The light bulb limits the current, even with a dead short, to the current (wattage) of the test bulb. So, there is no risk of damaging the wiring due to the short.


    Here is a photo of a test light that I made perhaps 20 years ago and have used ever since. For plugging into a fuse socket, terminate the wires with crimp on spade lugs that match the prongs on your fuse.

    ____________________________________
    http://i723.photobucket.com/albums/ww240/supallas/SteveSJBS%2048w_zpsg8cskcue.jpg ...... 2004 660 Camo, "Rhino". And now, also a Wolverine X4. "Wolfy".
    |___________________________________
    | Two roads diverged in a wood,
    | I took the one less traveled by....
    | Oh, Oh .

    | .............
    | ...............
    | ............... #
    |___________________________________

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  6. #15
    Kenny G's Avatar
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    SteveS, So if I hook the test light up to the signal fuse socket w/o fuse then run through the functions of the signal wiring branch the light will perform at each function even at the shorted function correct? But the bulb will only lighten up to its brightest when the wiring actually shorts its self out? So, I'd work my way through the wiring harness wiggling the harness hoping to eliminating different branch harness until getting the bright signal form the fuse light, then try and find the short from there? Is it true to say that the only way to find an intermittent short is when it crosses the electrical current? If so, I'd probably need to run wiring long enough to the fuse box so the test light could be in the cab area to be watched while riding.
    06/450: Rhino; JBS Hot Rod Sheave/12gr OD's; Blue Spring; 04 Style/KN Air; Dyna CDI; Axia Exhaust Tip; 3" Lift; Sport Shocks; 27X14 Mudlite XTR's; Warn 2500#

    08/700: Rhino; JBS Hot Rod X-Sheave/16gr OD's/Slugged; Purple Spring; Alba TB; Raptor HotCam; MSD/JBS-Map; Yoshimura Duals; Pro One Doors; LSR MTS; LSR Front & Back Supports; Ricochet Skids; Elka 4's; RackZilla/PS: 26X12 Pitbull Growlers; Camoplast T4S; Viper 4500#; Trail Bright LEDs.
    Let'em Buck!!!


  7. #16
    Most Senior member SteveS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny G View Post
    SteveS, So if I hook the test light up to the signal fuse socket w/o fuse then run through the functions of the signal wiring branch the light will perform at each function even at the shorted function correct? But the bulb will only lighten up to its brightest when the wiring actually shorts its self out? So, I'd work my way through the wiring harness wiggling the harness hoping to eliminating different branch harness until getting the bright signal form the fuse light, then try and find the short from there? Is it true to say that the only way to find an intermittent short is when it crosses the electrical current? If so, I'd probably need to run wiring long enough to the fuse box so the test light could be in the cab area to be watched while riding.
    Yes, the short circuit has to be active to show up on the light. Watching it from the cab would be a good idea to "catch it in the act", :-) Wire wiggling is sometimes the only way that you can pin it down.

    In thinking about it, I believe that the brake lights are the biggest normal current draw in the "signal" circuitry. The rating of the bulb (wattage) determines how bright the bulb glows in proportion to the current draw. To be a bit technical here, the circuit while testing is essentially 2 resistances in series; the test light is in series with the downstream resistance (the brake lights, the short, etc.). The downstream resistances are in parallel with each other. If the test light resistance is equal to the load resistance, then the total current will be 1/2 of the test light only current, hence about 1/2 brightness. 2 equal resistances in parallel ends up being a resistance of 1/2 of the single resistor by itself. Hence the test light would be in series with a resistance of 1/2 of its own resistance. The voltage drop across the test light will be 2/3 of the total voltage drop in the circuit, hence the bulb lights up to about 2/3 of the stand alone brightness. This is all based on Ohms law, if you should want to become an expert in that field :-) It can get pretty complicated in real world circuits.

    If you find that the test light is too bright with the normal circuit load on it, making it too hard to tell the difference between shorted and normal, then switch to a higher wattage bulb for the test light (perhaps a 25 watt bulb or more, headlight bulb). You can "calibrate" your eye to the difference between "brakes on" and "wire shorted" by deliberately shorting the downstream side of the fuse socket while the brake lights are on.

    You can energize the various legs of some of the "signals" involved. An example: Put the machine into different gears with the test light in place, If the short is in the high gear circuit then the test light is full brightness when you put it in high gear. And so on for the various possible branches for the short to be on.
    Last edited by SteveS; 11-21-2016 at 04:04 PM. Reason: OOps, 2/3 brightness (not 1/3), corrected.
    ____________________________________
    http://i723.photobucket.com/albums/ww240/supallas/SteveSJBS%2048w_zpsg8cskcue.jpg ...... 2004 660 Camo, "Rhino". And now, also a Wolverine X4. "Wolfy".
    |___________________________________
    | Two roads diverged in a wood,
    | I took the one less traveled by....
    | Oh, Oh .

    | .............
    | ...............
    | ............... #
    |___________________________________

  8. Thanks Kenny G thanked for this post
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