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  1. #21
    Still Shakin' the Cage 08Rhino450SE's Avatar
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    THIS IS CHRIS H's post of what can happen with the factory grounding setup:

    The grounding on these buggys are barely adequate. Mine burned up without any additional accessories. Check out what was left of the pigtail connector at the battery on my Rhino 700



    Oh, and it gets even better. Not only did I smoke the ground at the battery negative terminal, but somehow it melted the ground at the voltage rectifier, too!






    It melted wire way back into the main wiring harness. That was a pain in the butt to repair! I would not wish this on my worst enemy...








    After I repaired the damaged wires, I upgraded the grounds as Steve recommends. I added a 6AWG wire from the motor to the frame, and another 6AWG wire from the battery negative terminal to the frame. No more problems.

    Mountaineers are Always Free!



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  3. #22
    Still Shakin' the Cage 08Rhino450SE's Avatar
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    THIS IS STEVE S' post of the modification in a wiring diagram:

    I have annotated a snip of the service manual wiring diagram that pertains to the existing wiring. The markups are focused on the stock grounding scheme:



    And.... Here is a markup of the wiring diagram that might help in visualizing what I am talking about regarding the changes:



    I hope this helps?
    Mountaineers are Always Free!



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  5. #23
    rodneygt's Avatar
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    Thanks for this thread. I did this today as a precaution.

    In addition to grounding the engine to the frame and pigtail to the frame as detailed in this thread, wouldnt it also be good to run ground wires from the negative post of your battery or batteries to the frame as well? For example, also run a 8 or 10 gauge wire from the negative battery terminal to bolt where you ran the new pigtail wire?
    2011 Commander XT 1000

    2006 660 Special Edition (Sold)
    Had lots of neat stuff...

  6. #24
    I don't think so. If I understand correctly you want to avoid making an unintentional grounding path. By disconnecting the harness from the negative battery terminal you prevent the starter from grounding through the little wires (that will overheat with that much current) of the harness. This way the path back to the negative terminal of the battery is through the big wire only.

  7. #25
    rodneygt's Avatar
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    Ok. I see what you're saying. I also have a second battery with a blue sea voltage sensing relay type isolator. So I should just leave the accessory battery's negative grounded to the frame but not ground the negative from the starter (stock) battery right?
    2011 Commander XT 1000

    2006 660 Special Edition (Sold)
    Had lots of neat stuff...

  8. #26
    Most Senior member SteveS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodneygt View Post
    Thanks for this thread. I did this today as a precaution.
    In addition to grounding the engine to the frame and pigtail to the frame as detailed in this thread, wouldnt it also be good to run ground wires from the negative post of your battery or batteries to the frame as well? For example, also run a 8 or 10 gauge wire from the negative battery terminal to bolt where you ran the new pigtail wire?
    Quote Originally Posted by chalkminer View Post
    I don't think so. If I understand correctly you want to avoid making an unintentional grounding path. By disconnecting the harness from the negative battery terminal you prevent the starter from grounding through the little wires (that will overheat with that much current) of the harness. This way the path back to the negative terminal of the battery is through the big wire only.
    Chalkminer
    Yes, that is absolutely correct.

    Rodneygt
    The approach that I have chosen is to try to eliminate all sneak paths in which a weak ground connection could be made to the battery. The idea of the ground strap down at the engine case, together with the battery negative cable, is that a connection failure at that connection point would most likely affect both grounds together. In effect, If the battery connection to the engine case is lost, then the connection from engine case to frame is also lost. The entire electrical system is down in that case.

    You could put an additional ground strap from the battery negative terminal to the frame in the vicinity. The possibility of a sneak path if the battery negative cable loses its connection (along with the lower strap) does exist, but it is a pretty slim possibility. I really cannot object to doing that.

    A secondary benefit can be had by doing the ground strap at the engine case only. On my machine I have a theft deterrent scheme in place. I have a 100 Amp keyed switch in-line in the cable from battery negative to engine case. It is hidden from sight and must have the key to operate. If the switch is off, nothing has any power (this includes the wire harness, frame grounded accessories and starter motor). A possible additional benefit is that there are no parasitic drains upon the battery during storage. The switch that I used is a marine battery disconnect switch, picture below.

    This type of switch comes in 2 flavors, with a removable key (the red flag affair) and non removable actuator paddle. Beware of which flavor you buy.



    A warning about a warning..... :-) A common warning that you see plastered on jumper cables that you buy at the store is not to connect the negative jumper to the battery negative terminal but rather to connect it to the frame. This is intended to circumvent the possibility of igniting hydrogen gas, that is evolved from the battery, by a spark from making the electrical connection.

    Obeying this directive can be a real problem with the stock grounding scheme in the Rhino. Say the battery is dead. So you whip out the trusty jumper cables and connect them to battery positive terminal and to the frame (not the battery negative terminal). When you crank the engine over the starter motor return current, from the remote battery, flows from the engine case to the stock battery negative terminal (this is a dead battery), and then flows through the little black pigtail into the wire harness and then onto the frame, where it then returns to the source battery. This is a sure-fire way to melt down the wire harness. I bring this up as it suggests that the ground strap from engine case to frame should ideally be 6 gauge to absolutely ensure that it cannot overheat in this particular situation. 10 gauge or 8 gauge would likely survive a short cranking session, but for a prolonged cranking session, the 6 gauge would be the ticket.

    On the other hand, clamping the jumper onto the battery negative terminal does not present this problem, eh? BTW, the melting pigtail ignites the hydrogen cloud anyway, in spite of carefully doing it as instructed..... :-)
    ____________________________________
    http://i723.photobucket.com/albums/ww240/supallas/SteveSJBS%2048w_zpsg8cskcue.jpg ...... 2004 660 Camo, "Rhino". And now, also a Wolverine X4. "Wolfy".
    |___________________________________
    | Two roads diverged in a wood,
    | I took the one less traveled by....
    | Oh, Oh .

    | .............
    | ...............
    | ............... #
    |___________________________________

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  10. #27
    in knee deep Snorider's Avatar
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    so while skipping some sleep time tonight I added some grounds to my rhino since I wanted to do something with it. Just cause I know if I didn't it would bite me in the ass.

    I'm a little rummy right now but I added a ground from the battery to the rectifier ground on the frame, and a ground from the motor to the frame. all the connections are all soldered, shrink tubed, tight, clean and dielectric'd up and all connectoins are on the welded frame.

    I keep rereading this and just feel like I've missed something. have I or did I get it covered?
    08 700SE
    --Beast Mode--
    JBS BBK stroker w/clutching
    MTS

  11. #28
    Most Senior member SteveS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snorider View Post
    so while skipping some sleep time tonight I added some grounds to my rhino since I wanted to do something with it. Just cause I know if I didn't it would bite me in the ass.

    I'm a little rummy right now but I added a ground from the battery to the rectifier ground on the frame, and a ground from the motor to the frame. all the connections are all soldered, shrink tubed, tight, clean and dielectric'd up and all connectoins are on the welded frame.

    I keep rereading this and just feel like I've missed something. have I or did I get it covered?
    One other thing that I recommend is to cut the pigtail connection for the wire harness ground away from the negative battery terminal and reroute it to a known good grounding point on the frame. The same point at the rectifier that you grounded the battery to should be good. This eliminates a sneak path through the wire harness ground daisy chain that can burn up the wire harness if you should lose the ground connection between battery negative and the engine case. It is just insurance.

    BTW, the rectifier is grounded via the wire harness ground as it was designed. I am not at all sure that the case of the rectifier is at ground potential. However, the bolt going through the rectifier will indeed be connected to the frame. It is always good to double check these chassis ground connection. For example, you want the grounding bolt to go into bare metal threads (not painted over at the factory). Chasing the threads in the frame with a tap is a good idea if you are at all in doubt.
    ____________________________________
    http://i723.photobucket.com/albums/ww240/supallas/SteveSJBS%2048w_zpsg8cskcue.jpg ...... 2004 660 Camo, "Rhino". And now, also a Wolverine X4. "Wolfy".
    |___________________________________
    | Two roads diverged in a wood,
    | I took the one less traveled by....
    | Oh, Oh .

    | .............
    | ...............
    | ............... #
    |___________________________________

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  13. #29
    in knee deep Snorider's Avatar
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    Thanks Steve. I appreciate it. I will do that. So on the the battery side of that pig tail after I cut it, should I just drop a touch of solder and seal it up?

    Also you are right as usual. The ground that is there looks the the PO had lights grounded there. But the metal was shiny and clean when I looked at it to put dielectric grease in it so I'm not worried about that. Did have to clean the flange of the bolt up on the wire wheel though. It wasn't shiny and clean. Lol

    Sent from my STV100-1 Priv
    08 700SE
    --Beast Mode--
    JBS BBK stroker w/clutching
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  14. #30
    Most Senior member SteveS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snorider View Post
    Thanks Steve. I appreciate it. I will do that. So on the the battery side of that pig tail after I cut it, should I just drop a touch of solder and seal it up?

    Also you are right as usual. The ground that is there looks the the PO had lights grounded there. But the metal was shiny and clean when I looked at it to put dielectric grease in it so I'm not worried about that. Did have to clean the flange of the bolt up on the wire wheel though. It wasn't shiny and clean. Lol
    Clean is good. The dielectric grease will keep it from corroding again in the future. The cut end of the wire left behind is not much of an issue, as long as it is not likely to short out against anything.
    ____________________________________
    http://i723.photobucket.com/albums/ww240/supallas/SteveSJBS%2048w_zpsg8cskcue.jpg ...... 2004 660 Camo, "Rhino". And now, also a Wolverine X4. "Wolfy".
    |___________________________________
    | Two roads diverged in a wood,
    | I took the one less traveled by....
    | Oh, Oh .

    | .............
    | ...............
    | ............... #
    |___________________________________

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