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Thread: Winch fuse

  1. #1
    Super Moderator Yotehunter66's Avatar
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    Winch fuse

    I'm running the wiring for my winch. Are you guys just wrapping the fuses with electrical tape? It looks like you would have to to prevent them from shorting out.
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  2. #2
    Most Senior member SteveS's Avatar
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    Do you have pictures or a link to the winch that you have? I'd like to see the fuseholders that you are talking about. Also what are the Amp ratings of the fuses?
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  3. #3
    Vendor flimmy's Avatar
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    Yeah a pic would help. Also what kind of winch ? I've never seen a fuse on any winch wiring. They have to hook up the red wire to a switched power so it will already be fused. If you run it direct you will need a fuse and it will probably have to be a lower amp fuse since its just for opening and closing the relay for the controler
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  4. #4
    if i can find the fuse/relay i took off my badlands winch ill post it here.

  5. #5
    Most Senior member SteveS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mjrowley View Post
    if i can find the fuse/relay i took off my badlands winch ill post it here.
    I looked at the users manuals for 4 different Bandlands (Harbor Freight) winches: 12,000 lb, 5000 lb, 3500 lb, and 2500 lb. They all had no fuse involved in their wiring. They all had a circuit breaker to attach to the battery positive terminal. The winch motor power is taken through this circuit breaker in all cases. My take on this is that they are protecting the winch motor from overheating, the same sort of technology that Yamaha is using to protect the radiator fan motor, a thermal breaker that shuts off as the breaker's heater deforms a bi-metallic strip that opens the contacts.

    All 4 of those different sized winches have the same Duty Cycle rating: Duty cycle 5%, 45 seconds at max rated load, then 14+ minutes of rest (for cool-down). That is a rather low duty cycle rating in my estimation. So, I recon that they are using a thermal breaker to 'enforce' their duty cycle rating. Each of those differing sized winches will have a different thermal breaker for appropriate protection. My Ramsey winches are not provided with circuit breakers, probably relying on the operator to use appropriate judgment as to overloading the winch, or sizing the winch motor such that it can withstand stalling without burning up (?). I believe that it is rather unusual for a "name brand" winch to come with a circuit breaker, but I may be wrong about that.

    From the way you referred to the Bandlands winch "fuse", I am gathering that you may be using the Bandlands wiring components for use with another brand of winch? If so, I would discourage the use of the circuit breaker on another winch motor. The circuit breaker has to be 'tuned' to the motor's characteristics, lest it do no good. It could kick out prematurely and be a big nuisance or it could offer no protection at all and your motor would burn up. Using the other wiring components (cables, etc.) should cause no harm, assuming that they are adequately sized to handle huge amounts of current.
    ____________________________________
    http://i723.photobucket.com/albums/ww240/supallas/SteveSJBS%2048w_zpsg8cskcue.jpg ...... 2004 660 Camo, "Rhino". And now, also a Wolverine X4. "Wolfy".
    |___________________________________
    | Two roads diverged in a wood,
    | I took the one less traveled by....
    | Oh, Oh .

    | .............
    | ...............
    | ............... #
    |___________________________________

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  7. #6

    Winch fuse

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    I bought a 100a waterproof resettable circuit breaker. If I ever trip it with too much amp draw, I can reset it. I don't have to worry about water or mud either. I run a superwinch, but I called the, and asked what breaker to use. The winch came with a 100a breaker. A dc circuit breaker is a circuit breaker. They aren't tuned to the winch. They are just different amperages (unless that's what he meant by tuned). Make sure you get the correct amperage for the winch you have, but the brand/style of the breaker doesn't matter. A quick call to the manufacturer will give this info and it is usually less amperage than the motor is capable of drawing at full capacity.

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  9. #7
    Most Senior member SteveS's Avatar
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    Another comment regarding the 'ignition hot' wiring for the controller box. The primary ignition hot coming directly off of the ignition switch (Brown/bLue stripe wires) are, for all intents and purposes, un-fused. The power from the battery that they carry to the fusebox is protected only by the 30 Amp mains fuse. The power from the alternator (stator/rectifier) is completely unprotected. All circuits in the Rhino are protected by their respective fuses in the fusebox. So either tap into an appropriately fused sub-circuit or use your own fuse if you come off of a Brown/bLue wire. The current for the winch control contactor is likely to be in the order of 1 Amp or possibly less. If you are using a relay to energize an aux fuseblock for ignition hot, then use a fuse of a few Amps rating. This fusing is to protect the wiring, so the fuse is essentially sized for the wiring and not for the device that is drawing the power (quite unlike motor protection as in the case of the winch/radiator fan motors).
    ____________________________________
    http://i723.photobucket.com/albums/ww240/supallas/SteveSJBS%2048w_zpsg8cskcue.jpg ...... 2004 660 Camo, "Rhino". And now, also a Wolverine X4. "Wolfy".
    |___________________________________
    | Two roads diverged in a wood,
    | I took the one less traveled by....
    | Oh, Oh .

    | .............
    | ...............
    | ............... #
    |___________________________________

  10. #8
    Most Senior member SteveS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by a_tack View Post
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    I bought a 100a waterproof resettable circuit breaker. If I ever trip it with too much amp draw, I can reset it. I don't have to worry about water or mud either. I run a superwinch, but I called the, and asked what breaker to use. The winch came with a 100a breaker. A dc circuit breaker is a circuit breaker. They aren't tuned to the winch. They are just different amperages. Make sure you get the correct amperage for the winch you have, but the brand/style of the breaker doesn't matter. A quick call to the manufacturer will give this info and it is usually less amperage than the motor is capable of drawing at full capacity.
    Hmm, why would you want a winch that kicks out before it gets to capacity? When I was saying that the circuit breaker is "tuned" to the motor, I meant that a, presumably, off the shelf breaker is selected for the current draw of the motor. The 2,500 lb winch uses a very different sized circuit breaker than the 12,000 lb winch.

    BTW, ALL ordinary circuit breakers are thermal breakers. They all heat up something inside of them which causes the contacts to pop apart. Even fuses are thermal devices, in that the fuse element rises in temperature such that it melts at a certain Amperage of current flow.
    ____________________________________
    http://i723.photobucket.com/albums/ww240/supallas/SteveSJBS%2048w_zpsg8cskcue.jpg ...... 2004 660 Camo, "Rhino". And now, also a Wolverine X4. "Wolfy".
    |___________________________________
    | Two roads diverged in a wood,
    | I took the one less traveled by....
    | Oh, Oh .

    | .............
    | ...............
    | ............... #
    |___________________________________

  11. #9

    Winch fuse

    Most manufacturers ship breakers that kick before the motor maxes out to prevent damage to the motor, wiring, and contactor. I didn't understand it until I talked to an electrical tech for about 30 minutes one day.

    And yes, in that sense they are "tuned" to the winch. Different amperage breakers are used for different winches. Obviously a 12,000lb winch will draw a lot more amps than a 2,500lb. Off the shelf breakers are available in many different amperage configurations for that very reason.

    Amperage ratings on wiring are affected by wire composition, gauge, and length. 2ga wire is only rated for about 100amps on a run of less than like 40 ft or so. Let's say a 4500lb winch at full capacity can draw 160amps. Most manufacturers will ship it with 2 or 4 ga wire. If you put a 160amp breaker on it, the wiring will melt long before the breaker trips.

    I roll steel flat bar for a living. Even though our roughing mill motors may be capable of pulling 1000+ amps, they will "amp out" at a much lower amperage than that to prevent the motor from overheating and locking up. My daily life revolves around electric motors. I don't think I've ever seen a properly installed electric motor that is fused at full motor capacity amperage.

  12. #10
    Most Senior member SteveS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by a_tack View Post
    Most manufacturers ship breakers that kick before the motor maxes out to prevent damage to the motor, wiring, and contactor. I didn't understand it until I talked to an electrical tech for about 30 minutes one day.

    And yes, in that sense they are "tuned" to the winch. Different amperage breakers are used for different winches. Obviously a 12,000lb winch will draw a lot more amps than a 2,500lb. Off the shelf breakers are available in many different amperage configurations for that very reason.

    Amperage ratings on wiring are affected by wire composition, gauge, and length. 2ga wire is only rated for about 100amps on a run of less than like 40 ft or so. Let's say a 4500lb winch at full capacity can draw 160amps. Most manufacturers will ship it with 2 or 4 ga wire. If you put a 160amp breaker on it, the wiring will melt long before the breaker trips.

    I roll steel flat bar for a living. Even though our roughing mill motors may be capable of pulling 1000+ amps, they will "amp out" at a much lower amperage than that to prevent the motor from overheating and locking up. My daily life revolves around electric motors. I don't think I've ever seen a properly installed electric motor that is fused at full motor capacity amperage.
    Well then you are aware of run-time current vs. startup current. Motor protecting circuit breakers are sized quite a bit over run-time current draw to be able to handle the inductive surge when they first start rotating. These circuit breakers will pop when the current draw exceeds a certain value for a certain period of time. These are the red buttons that pop out when you stall your table saw or similar types of machinery.

    With that said, winches are kind of a different animal in that they can be used at very close to stall , or should I be saying abused? At stall there is no back EMF to counter the flow of current driven by full supplied voltage (Ohms law). This will be quite similar to the initial surge current at startup. This makes it easier to size a circuit breaker, or fuse for that matter. The point here is that you cannot size the fuse by the current drawn at the continuous run-time current draw spec.

    The cable rating that you specified is most likely a voltage drop derived value (given that you stated the length of the cable). The softening/melting point of the insulation determines the absolute limit of current capacity and has nothing to do with the length of the run. This limit will be much higher than the "5% voltage drop" sort of limitation. However, this distance relationship can indeed be important for the proper function of the device at the end of the run, but it has nothing to do with the fire safety aspect of things. The serviceable voltage drop in a winch circuit is quite high and the weight of Triple Ought cable is quite prohibitive :-)

    To put this in perspective, all vehicles with electric starters have these big cables running from the batteries. They have the same fire safety issues as a winch installation and rather similar current draw. It has been a long time since I have seen a fuse on a starter motor circuit. I am just trying to point out that protection of the motor and protection of the wiring are 2 different animals. A lot of winch motors are unprotected either way, just as starter motor circuits are unprotected.
    ____________________________________
    http://i723.photobucket.com/albums/ww240/supallas/SteveSJBS%2048w_zpsg8cskcue.jpg ...... 2004 660 Camo, "Rhino". And now, also a Wolverine X4. "Wolfy".
    |___________________________________
    | Two roads diverged in a wood,
    | I took the one less traveled by....
    | Oh, Oh .

    | .............
    | ...............
    | ............... #
    |___________________________________

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