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  1. #11
    Most Senior member SteveS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimclemjr View Post
    IIRC that Brown wire goes to a lot of devices and powers relays, so if you are going to rerun it, make sure you check the wiring diagram and trace down all devices where it goes.
    Just to add to this comment, Most of the complexity in the schematic regarding the brown wire connections (from the signal fuse), are connections to the various simple idiot lights that were supplied on the stripped version of the machine. The digital dash upgrade involves pulling out the idiot light modules. Those particular brown wire connections are still left dangling in the wire harness. Most of the "signal" power feeds are unused if you have the digital dash. There are also other wires in the wire harness that are color coded brown but have nothing to do with the signal circuitry, unfortunately, which can make things confusing, when just looking at the actual wire harness.

    Hopefully, you have downloaded a copy of the service manual by now? The wiring diagram is essentially the last page in the manual. You should be able to extract (export) the pdf of that page while in a PDF reader with editing capability. The higher end PDF programs will also allow you to enlarge the print out to a larger scale. 11" x 17" gives you a much more readable document. You can take your file export to a place like Office Depot and have it printed on the 11 x 17 paper. Get many large paper copies of it, then highlight the real remaining circuit paths and black out the disappeared circuit paths.

    Getting a readable and markable schematic will be a great improvement for troubleshooting. Myself, I cannot mentally trace the circuit upon a computer screen. Could be an aging thing, though. :-)
    ____________________________________
    http://i723.photobucket.com/albums/ww240/supallas/SteveSJBS%2048w_zpsg8cskcue.jpg ...... 2004 660 Camo, "Rhino". And now, also a Wolverine X4. "Wolfy".
    |___________________________________
    | Two roads diverged in a wood,
    | I took the one less traveled by....
    | Oh, Oh .

    | .............
    | ...............
    | ............... #
    |___________________________________

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  3. #12
    jimclemjr's Avatar
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    The elec guru speaks.......SteveS good to hear you chime in, hope you are doing well. That first paragraph is a wealth of knowledge you don't get just reading a manual! That's great stuff- I never had a 660 rhino just the 700 but really love your knowledge and wisdom.
    2016 Wolverine R-Spec EPS, Camo, fender ext. 4000 Moto winch w/syn rope, 14"Method B-locks, 27" Maxxis Vipr 9 & 11's, Full flip windshield, A-arm guards, 2 batts, JBS CVT grind, 16 OD, slugs, purple, JBS/Eibach springs, Autometer Temp Gauge
    08 Rhino 700 SE Black Armor, JBS 734 (bbk w/Carillo crank & rod, CP 11:1, deshrouded valves, Raptor springs, Viking cam & FI, MSD, afr Gauge, Unleashed sheave w/JBS OD 18g greased, Purple, slugs, 27" Mudlite XTRs , 6" Chopped , Mishi Rad, ALBA exhaust

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  5. #13
    Good morning,
    I hear you about the "aging thing", been retired for a few years now; good to hear from you Steve, I was getting worried.
    Yes, I have found the manual and the wiring diagram at the back, but for a 2006, ours, a 2005, has the digi display and everything works fine except the brake lights and related ability to start in gear. There are some other diagrams for special editions?
    Will have to look into this pdf stuff, I just have the free reader and a laptop, but manage reasonably well, maybe better after cataract surgery on the 22nd! It sounds a bit beyond me....
    The wiring diagram shows a Br feeding to "ghosted" boxes in the upper left, but they are not identified? relays?
    It looks as if the brake switch just passes 12v thro' to that little diode "thingy" alongside the "N" signal and then on to the starter relay?
    Where is it located?
    If that had a 12v when the ign is on then it would start in gear without brakes?
    Hoping not to have to open up the harness too much, difficult to picture what could have happened in it..
    Will try and jumper 12v to downstream of the brake switch to see if stop lights come on..
    We will resolve I have no doubt.
    Many thanks
    Trevor

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  7. #14
    Most Senior member SteveS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trevor-t View Post
    Good morning,
    I hear you about the "aging thing", been retired for a few years now; good to hear from you Steve, I was getting worried.
    Yes, I have found the manual and the wiring diagram at the back, but for a 2006, ours, a 2005, has the digi display and everything works fine except the brake lights and related ability to start in gear. There are some other diagrams for special editions?
    Will have to look into this pdf stuff, I just have the free reader and a laptop, but manage reasonably well, maybe better after cataract surgery on the 22nd! It sounds a bit beyond me....
    The wiring diagram shows a Br feeding to "ghosted" boxes in the upper left, but they are not identified? relays?
    It looks as if the brake switch just passes 12v thro' to that little diode "thingy" alongside the "N" signal and then on to the starter relay?
    Where is it located?
    If that had a 12v when the ign is on then it would start in gear without brakes?
    Hoping not to have to open up the harness too much, difficult to picture what could have happened in it..
    Will try and jumper 12v to downstream of the brake switch to see if stop lights come on..
    We will resolve I have no doubt.
    Many thanks
    Trevor
    As far as I know, the 2006 edition was the first version that was published by Yamaha. It applies to the 2004 and on. A new manual was published as the 700 was introduced. This is rather different due to the fuel injection introduced on that machine. Very little changes (if any) electrically over the 660 model years.

    The "ghosted" boxes are the schematic for a backup light circuit. This is not supplied in a machine you buy from the factory. It is sold by Yamaha as an installation kit. The connectors you see by the ghostly boxes are to plug the kit into.

    #11 is a dual diode isolator that introduces power to the starter relay coil. It will supply power to the coil if the machine is in neutral, or if the brake light switch is closed. The diodes prevent the signal from one from getting into the other circuit. The starter relay is closed when the other end of the coil is grounded by the ignition switch, L/B (bLue/Black stripe) wire.

    Yes, do not cut open the harness until you positively pin down the location of the short. I believe that every connection of the Brown wire is connected to it's destination by a connector. Unplug the connection to the device and see if the short goes away. If all the destinations are unplugged and it still shows a short on your test lamp, then you know that it is likely within the harness. If you unplug anything, do remember to plug it back together when you are done, :-).

    The brake light switch is on the front side of the firewall (under the hood). You will see a rod that is pulled when you press on the brake pedal. That pulls on a spring on the front of the firewall. That spring is connected to the switch. Some times the switch is out of adjustment and the spring fails to pull on the switch enough to actuate the switch. The adjustment is there adjacent to the switch, if I remember correctly. Jumper 12V from the downstream side of the test light to the Black/Yellow stripe wire at the switch connector (unplugged from the switch for safety). You should then see the starter switch has power and the engine will crank when you hit the key.

    I hope this helps. I will be doing yard work today but I will check this site once in a while.
    ____________________________________
    http://i723.photobucket.com/albums/ww240/supallas/SteveSJBS%2048w_zpsg8cskcue.jpg ...... 2004 660 Camo, "Rhino". And now, also a Wolverine X4. "Wolfy".
    |___________________________________
    | Two roads diverged in a wood,
    | I took the one less traveled by....
    | Oh, Oh .

    | .............
    | ...............
    | ............... #
    |___________________________________

  8. #15
    Thanks Steve, that was in my plan, not being electrical I will have to make up a jumper, it has been a long time...
    All of the other sensors are working just lost the brake lights and start in gear, may have been like it for a long time, but could ask the PO.
    I also have other things to do and it does run...
    Cheers

  9. #16

    Sat. pm update

    Jumper wires used and...
    with the test light, 25w, in there is only .4v potential in the brown wire because of the short, so nothing works, brake lights or starter solenoid.
    I tested (carefully) with an unfused jumper to the brake light connector striped wire (I am pretty bad red/grn colour blind), small sparks as I would expect from the brake lights coming on, which they did and she cranked in gear, yee ha...
    So cannot use the oem signal fuse holder without finding and fixing the ground, BUT can cut and make safe the brown wire near the brake light switch and run a new wire from an ignition hot source with an inline fuse to replace it.. It would be nice to keep it original but no big deal..
    Make sense?
    Trevor
    Then it will be on to the noisy binding brakes...

  10. #17
    Most Senior member SteveS's Avatar
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    I thought that I would post a few pix that might be helpful:

    Gear indicator switch, I'm not sure this has been a problem, but this is the alternative to using the brake light switch to enable start (neutral position). Beware, this bakelite plastic is a bit fragile. You find this on the side opposite and in-line with the gear shift shaft that the shift lever is linked up to
    .


    Ground pigtail into wire harness, that was mentioned earlier, can cause weird problems. Note the overheating on the cheapo connector. You may want to review a posted thread on improving the grounding system, perhaps after you fix this problem, or before, if you run out of other options. https://hotrodforums.net/forums/show...ding-by-SteveS



    You might want to inspect the dangling connectors for the original idiot lights. It's possible that someone tapped into one of these to obtain auxiliary power? You can access them with the front hood open. Within the space below the dashboard plastic and above the metal crossbar that the battery box is anchored to.
    ____________________________________
    http://i723.photobucket.com/albums/ww240/supallas/SteveSJBS%2048w_zpsg8cskcue.jpg ...... 2004 660 Camo, "Rhino". And now, also a Wolverine X4. "Wolfy".
    |___________________________________
    | Two roads diverged in a wood,
    | I took the one less traveled by....
    | Oh, Oh .

    | .............
    | ...............
    | ............... #
    |___________________________________

  11. #18
    Thought I had posted an update a few hours ago, I must be doing something else wrong...
    Test bulb across the signal fuse there is only .4v from the Br wire to grd., not enough to light up the stop lights or trigger the starter solenoid.
    Direct 12v to the stripe wire beyond the brake switch makes minor sparks as expected to power the brake lights and the starter cranked in gear; so looking good for a "bodge" fix by disconnecting the brown before the brake switch and running a new wire from another ignition hot source, maybe with an inline fuse?
    I will go searching for these other brown wires that leave the harness, finding the problem and fixing it would certainly be ideal, we will get there...
    The improved grounding will be done, at the moment that small black and its connector near the battery looks good..
    Thank you for the pictures and advice.. hopefully this posts ok
    Regards
    Trevor

  12. #19
    Ridin' and Guidin' Timmi's Avatar
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    sorry, I just saw the notices for approval, it's because you had less than 10 posts and you had attachments with your post, it's a spam control feature

    Quote Originally Posted by trevor-t View Post
    Thought I had posted an update a few hours ago, I must be doing something else wrong...
    Trevor

    "
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  13. #20
    No problem Timmi, but don't think I had attachments. Soon be up to 10 posts at this rate.
    Cheers
    Trevor

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