Help - signal circuit short

[Timmi]

hmmm, well no you didn't, one more post and you'll be at 10, we'll see if it goes through without needing approval

No problem Timmi, but don't think I had attachments. Soon be up to 10 posts at this rate.
Cheers
Trevor

[trevor-t]

So far have not found where that brown wire has gone to ground, there are some unused connectors behind the dash, near the steering, but nothing looks distressed. Will take a look under the engine cover tomorrow and see where to add that new ground, motor to frame..
I am colour blind and that brown does not jump out for me...
Getting closer to that outside fix, thinking now that the fuse box and relays are lifted, to cut the brown between the fuse block and the harness, and between the harness and the brake switch, then use a butt connectors for a new wire that will run outside of the harness?
This way it will use the same fuse and should not cause any confusion for possible future owners..
While poking around I can see that there is play in the steering U-joint at the rack; was able to loosen the pinch bolt, lube and retighten, maybe a bit better, but still visible play... may last years for us, but these things never get better on their own.
Like the brakes, think it would be happy with some new rotors and pads, hoping the calipers are okay, but they drag pretty bad when it is first moved..
Trevor

[SteveS]

Jumper wires used and...
with the test light, 25w, in there is only .4v potential in the brown wire because of the short, so nothing works, brake lights or starter solenoid.
I tested (carefully) with an unfused jumper to the brake light connector striped wire (I am pretty bad red/grn colour blind), small sparks as I would expect from the brake lights coming on, which they did and she cranked in gear, yee ha...
So cannot use the oem signal fuse holder without finding and fixing the ground, BUT can cut and make safe the brown wire near the brake light switch and run a new wire from an ignition hot source with an inline fuse to replace it.. It would be nice to keep it original but no big deal..
Make sense?
Trevor
Then it will be on to the noisy binding brakes...

The low 0.4 Volt measurement on the Brown wire is certainly suggesting a heavy short somewhere along the brown wire. Does not the engine start when the transmission is placed in neutral? That signal comes from the CDI which, going by the schematic is independent of the signal fuse circuit.

The appropriate way to pin down where the short is, is to unplug each signal fuse driven sub-circuit, while watching your troubleshooting light bulb. I the light goes out or goes dim you have likely isolated the trouble area. It could be upstream in that leg of the harness brown wire, or it could be downstream in the sub-circuit. Generally speaking you can unplug one by one, until all sub-circuits are unplugged. If you find a suspect sub-circuit, plug the other sub-circuits back in while leaving the "guilty" one unplugged. It can get especially tricky if you have more than one short involved.

Keep us posted as to how it goes. Do try not to get too exasperated as it will give you a big thrill when you find it in the end.... :-)

[trevor-t]

Hi again, yes, it cranks and starts in Neutral fine; just no brake lights or starting in gear.
The digi display all works, so I do not know what else this brown circuit supplies. Seems to be nothing v important so getting closer to cutting the brown and splicing in a new wire, keeping the same 10A fuse for it. If I one day find the problem the brown wire will still be there and can be reconnected..
Then must get some brakes ordered...
Trevor

[SteveS]

Hi again, yes, it cranks and starts in Neutral fine; just no brake lights or starting in gear.
The digi display all works, so I do not know what else this brown circuit supplies. Seems to be nothing v important so getting closer to cutting the brown and splicing in a new wire, keeping the same 10A fuse for it. If I one day find the problem the brown wire will still be there and can be reconnected..
Then must get some brakes ordered...
Trevor

That seems like a reasonable approach. I am not sure what all of the circuit functions are, but they do seem to be isolated to the individual original idiot lights... And the brake lights for some strange reason. When you run the machine keep an eye ot for any quirks or malfunctions. You can then address them, perhaps by jumpering power like you did here. You will be leaving the signal fuse out, so you probably will need to explain the loss to a new owner if you ever sell it.

[trevor-t]

Hi again,
my plan is to cut that brown just after its fuse, join the new wire under the fuse box, then cut it again just before the brake switch connector and reconnect with the new wire.
This way the 10A fuse will still be used and I will have brake lights and the start in gear function working again, will be better than it is now when that circuit is dead..
I did check with the PO, he had no idea that it should have been able to start in gear, as it never had in his 5yrs of ownership...
Cheers
Trevor

[SteveS]

Hi again,
my plan is to cut that brown just after its fuse, join the new wire under the fuse box, then cut it again just before the brake switch connector and reconnect with the new wire.
This way the 10A fuse will still be used and I will have brake lights and the start in gear function working again, will be better than it is now when that circuit is dead..
I did check with the PO, he had no idea that it should have been able to start in gear, as it never had in his 5yrs of ownership...
Cheers
Trevor

Alright, looks like you are on your way.

[trevor-t]

It is done, so far so good, we have stop lights and it cranks in gear with the brakes on..
Someone had added a winch and left the wires from the batt to the solenoid way too long so they have been shortened; used a piece of the heavy black for another ground to the frame at the RR and cut that thin black at the neg batt terminal antd took it there as well. Just need to add that additional ground from the motor to the frame now..
Having had motorbike charging issues I am thinking of adding a voltmeter to monitor charging, meanwhile will check volts with my old meter..
Thanks to all for welcome and help..
Regards
Trevor

[mfrench]

Glad to hear you have it fixed. I have an 06 rhino and it only starts in gear when the brake lights are on "giving a brake signal", otherwise it must be in nuetral to crank. If I pull or blow the signal fuse it will not crank in gear due to the safety feature. Seems like if your reading 0.4v, with the test light in the circuit, your doing a voltage drop test, and it showing 0.4v instead of 12v is because the light is using all available voltage. It is turning on (and blowing the fuse) because you have a short to ground before the load and after the bulb in the circuit.(brake light side of the switch).

[trevor-t]

Hi, haven't figured out how to do the quote stuff, but to clarify for mfrench,my signal fuse brown wire had a direct short to grd before it reached the connector to the brake switch, so the fuse blew as soon as the ignition was turned on... so I cut the original wire after the fuse and before the connector and spliced in the new one.
The brake lights now work so the load side wiring is ok, at least for now..
That's enough electrical stuff, hopefully..
Trevor