Flags and such for desert & trails

[SteveS]

I have gotten my X4 and have spent decent amount of time looking it over. I will ride, in a single trip, both in wide open and hilly terrain as well as tight 2 way overgrown trails in the woods. The risks of a head on type of crash are radically different in these 2 situations. So in my way of thinking, a tall flag is necessary in the open with hilly terrain, where your danger may be coming from any direction at all. However, in the tight 2 way overgrown trail the flag is useless as a warning and are very apt to be destroyed.

In the tight woods safety is much more difficult to attain as you are completely "invisible", hiding behind the trees. Perhaps there is only sound left? Being deaf takes that out of the picture altogether. Even if you hear perfectly, there is the sound of your own machine possibly drowning out the oncoming danger, eh?

I am posting this as an invitation for any and all members to tell of their experiences and possible ways to overcome this dilemma for me, and others, of course. It strikes me that the woods scenario requires effort requires mutual effort by both parties?

There are ways to protect one's self by using harnesses, etc. But I like my new "Wolfy" (her newly given name) and want to keep her....

[therebel19]

I run a 2 foot lighted whip on very slow strobe in the woods. Its below the roof and is pretty well protected. It doesn't do much during the day but at night it makes me very visible. I hope that the slow changing of colors from the rear and the headlights from the front helps make me more noticeable in the daylight, but you right its hard to be seen. Sound doesn't really do anything for me safety wise as the woods and my own machine mask others from me and probably me from them.

[jimclemjr]

I have a firm belief that running some lights in the daytime will give an extra second of collision avoidance opportunity for approaching drivers on wooded trails. sometimes just a half second or at 30 mph equals 43 feet or so can make a big difference. I use two LED amber lights on front and two LED red lights on rear that are always on when the ignition is on. They are so bright in the eyes, that my buds have said they don't tailgate cause of them ( a residual benefit). So that is something to consider. I am considering mounting the two front amber from bumper to higher up on cage for added visibility.

[SteveS]

I have a firm belief that running some lights in the daytime will give an extra second of collision avoidance opportunity for approaching drivers on wooded trails. sometimes just a half second or at 30 mph equals 43 feet or so can make a big difference. I use two LED amber lights on front and two LED red lights on rear that are always on when the ignition is on. They are so bright in the eyes, that my buds have said they don't tailgate cause of them ( a residual benefit). So that is something to consider. I am considering mounting the two front amber from bumper to higher up on cage for added visibility.

Excellent advice, sir. I agree wholeheartedly and will add it to my list of things to consider. The numbers that you give are indeed frightening. I am an experienced engineer and do appreciate numbers within a discussion. I did take this as a factor in my thoughts earlier, but this did certainly reinforce my wish for this thread to have real meaning.

I was young and foolish once, as everyone has been (or is) guilty of. This is likely a big factor as to why trails and riding areas have been closed off to us over the decades since I was riding very frequently as part of my lifestyle. So, I hope this enhances our awareness of the hazards of our sport.

I have only begun to give serious thought to design and planning of prototype builds of possible future products, with hopeful consideration of all of the factors involved. It will take a while before anyone sees the fruit of this endeavor, but I hope everyone contributes anything and everything that they can in the meantime.

Happy, and safe, trails to you all.

[SteveS]

I run a 2 foot lighted whip on very slow strobe in the woods. Its below the roof and is pretty well protected. It doesn't do much during the day but at night it makes me very visible. I hope that the slow changing of colors from the rear and the headlights from the front helps make me more noticeable in the daylight, but you right its hard to be seen. Sound doesn't really do anything for me safety wise as the woods and my own machine mask others from me and probably me from them.

Thank you as well. I will be monitoring this thread as well as I can. This is a great contribution as well. You are spot on as far as having a strobe device involved. This goes for simply lighting the whip as well. I was pondering the length of the whip, and yours, at 2 feet, seems quite appropriate for woods riding and the like. However it also seems obvious that this is not the answer for hilly and open terrain. There, the taller the better.

This brings up the main dilemma in my mind. Short is good in the woods, but long is more appropriate out in the open.
Ahhh, how to make a "universal" solution?

As you probably noticed, I read the later post before I read yours. Sorry about that.

Hmmm, how about flares automatically shot up into the sky?
Problem is, it will bring the Forest Service down on us even more.

Scratch that off of the list, eh? :-)

[jimclemjr]

I run a 2 foot lighted whip on very slow strobe in the woods. Its below the roof and is pretty well protected. It doesn't do much during the day but at night it makes me very visible. I hope that the slow changing of colors from the rear and the headlights from the front helps make me more noticeable in the daylight, but you right its hard to be seen. Sound doesn't really do anything for me safety wise as the woods and my own machine mask others from me and probably me from them.

This gets me to thinking too about the strobe angle. How durable are the whips when getting smashed by a big oak limb at 20 mph? When I see the road work vehicles I often see they have white and amber lights hidden in the grille and then when they turn them on, no doubt they get attention. So maybe with my bullet lights I could mount a couple at the upper corners of the cage and set them to a strobe pattern.....now just need to find a controller lol.

[SteveS]

This gets me to thinking too about the strobe angle. How durable are the whips when getting smashed by a big oak limb at 20 mph? When I see the road work vehicles I often see they have white and amber lights hidden in the grille and then when they turn them on, no doubt they get attention. So maybe with my bullet lights I could mount a couple at the upper corners of the cage and set them to a strobe pattern.....now just need to find a controller lol.

The electronics for a strobe are pretty simple. A capacitor is the primary element involved. The voltage from the battery "fills" the capacitor, building up a charge. There is also a resistor involved which limits the rate at which the capacitor charges. Once the voltage across the capacitor reaches a threshold, the capacitor dumps it's stored charge into the light emitting part of the circuit (the incandescent bulb or LED). This discharges the capacitor below the threshold and the light turns back off. The capacitor then draws voltage from the battery and then builds up a new charge. This then reaches the threshold and the light turns on again. The cycle here continues until you kill the power feeding it.

It is a really simple circuit. The rate of flashing is determined by the "values" of the capacitor and the resistor. Capacitors have values of "Farads", in this situation Micro Farads (millionths of a Farad). Resistors have values of "Ohms". These units are from the names of famous dead scientists of days long gone into the past.

I will try to put this all together and make, or possibly buy, a "module" which can be placed between the switched (on or off) battery voltage source and the light emitter (a "light source"; old time Incandescent light bulb or Light Emitting Diode, these days). There are simple published formulae to determine these values, once you decide the rate that you want.

BTW, stay away from red and blue in the front, as that is what the cops reserve for their own nefarious purposes.

What you need to determine is the flash rate that you want. How many flashes per minute, or how long (in seconds) between flashes, as an example.

Using a turn signal flasher module (as in your car) would be the simplest approach to doing this, with very little to think out and analyze in order to create the timing that you probably want. I'm supposing that is the sort of flash rate that you want to see here? The modern solid state flashers designed in nowadays have a very definite stable flash rate. Generally, they are not dependent on the size (brightness, or current draw) of the light source, as were the old time mechanical flashers.

I hope that I did not bore you too much here.

[therebel19]

I built my own using a regular whip flag. Then I wrapped it in led strip lighting. I used an ebay LED controller with wireless remote so I can change the colors and/or combination of colors and go from solid to strobe and adjust from slow to fading to blinking really fast. I then put clear shrink wrap over it all. and wired it straight to one of the accessory plugs. Its all controlled by remote. I think I had $10 or $15 invested in it all. I've been using it since 2015 when I had a Wildcat. Its been bashed on small tree limbs and washed and sprayed numerous times. So far so good. I was pissed when the first ones I had I had bought for my Rhino. They were over $100 and broke the first tree limb they hit. I knew I could build something better and cheaper.

[SteveS]

I built my own using a regular whip flag. Then I wrapped it in led strip lighting. I used an ebay LED controller with wireless remote so I can change the colors and/or combination of colors and go from solid to strobe and adjust from slow to fading to blinking really fast. I then put clear shrink wrap over it all. and wired it straight to one of the accessory plugs. Its all controlled by remote. I think I had $10 or $15 invested in it all. I've been using it since 2015 when I had a Wildcat. Its been bashed on small tree limbs and washed and sprayed numerous times. So far so good. I was pissed when the first ones I had I had bought for my Rhino. They were over $100 and broke the first tree limb they hit. I knew I could build something better and cheaper.

Yeah, cheaper is gooder. My sentiments exactly.

Very clever utilization of your resources.
Very good ideas that I will undoubtedly pilfer during my Wolfy build.

Thank you much for the great response.

[jimclemjr]

The explanation helps my brain to understand the principles- thx. I found some on Amazon last night for about $10 (iirc but seldom do) that have two circuits output with a few amps which will be fine to do a couple smallish LED. Flash rate of 150 flashes per minute, which seems to be the indication for road work vehicles you commonly see. So I would probably go that route as presently I think I am worth a little more than $2.00/hour. Maybe lol.